From Family Operated to Operating as a Family: A Conversation with Co-Founder Paul Baird on Baird Brothers Sawmill History
Steve Stack:
Brought to you direct from Studio 3B at Baird Brothers Fine Hardwoods, American Hardwood Advisor is your source for trends, tips, and insights into how the building industry has evolved.
Join me, Steve Stack, along with guest builders and industry leaders, as we talk shop and go in-depth on what it takes to be the best of the best.
Dive into topics like architecture, industry trends, project plans, historical tools, tricks of the trade, and life lessons from more than six decades of experience in the hardwood lumber business.
It All Started With Three Baird Brothers
Steve Stack:
In our very first episode of American Hardwood Advisor, we’re gonna be talking about the Baird Brothers 60 plus year history, and we thought no better person to talk that subject about other than Mr. Paul Baird, Paul.
Paul Baird:
Yep. Hello. Yep.
Steve Stack:
Paul, being one of the company’s original founders, he and your two brothers, Richard and-
Paul Baird:
Richard.
Steve Stack:
… and Howard, right?
Paul Baird:
Yep.
Steve Stack:
And so we want to talk a little bit about that, the history, how you guys started the company out of necessity, out of want. And we just want to get your perspective today of what you guys have gone through.
I’ve had the fortune of being involved with the company a long time. I’ve seen the growth, the changes, but we want to hear you talk about it a little bit today, Paul. So let’s dive right in. Let’s talk about back in 1960, right? You and Richard and Howard.
Paul Baird:
Yeah, actually it was even before 1960. We didn’t start officially in business, but we started preparing ourselves. We were at home, we worked on local farms here and we had a power line went through north of us, strip mining over there.
Timber was on. Father had a small saw mill. And that’s how we actually learned about a saw mill as kids. Obviously on a farm, you do a lot of things and one of them was working on that mill. And so we decided instead of working for other people, we picked up a couple accounts and started pulling the logs into this mill down here and doing it the old way.
I was in high school, they (Howard and Richard) were in college, and we all graduated in 1960. So that’s when we started officially being in the business. But we had learned how to work in the woods, cut timber, obviously from our dad.
Steve Stack:
And I wasn’t around at that point, but I know at one point, did Richard and Howard both go off to the service or just Richard?
Paul Baird:
No, no. Howard went first. They went in a six month program. And he went first and then when he came back and at that time you could serve six months and be in the reserve for five years. And so then Howard and I ran the sawmill. Really, it is just a little mill that you would see that’s out in the woods today by guys setting up mills.
And then when Richard come back, or when Howard come back, then Richard went to the service. And then it was Howie and I. And then when my time come around, I had gotten an ulcer and I didn’t need to go to the service.
Steve Stack:
Yeah.
Paul Baird:
At that time. So, and that was quite a few years later.
Steve Stack:
So, they did their service and they came back home. And then at some point, and I don’t recall, what year was it or thereabouts that you guys built the old building with the new enterprise sawmill?
Paul Baird:
Well, that was built in… I can remember that it was the year that Jack Kennedy, our president, was shot. We were building it that fall. And so that would’ve been what? ’63?
Steve Stack:
’63, ’64.
Paul Baird:
Somewhere there, yeah.
Steve Stack:
Yeah. Yeah. So that’s when the old quonset building was built.
Paul Baird:
That was the first building that we had. Our brother Robert had already built north of us, but a welding shop, but yes. And we were still operating out down behind the home place down there in a building that the sawmill was. That’s where the logs and all were. And then we built that quonset in 1963. And that’s about that year there that Richard and I both were married.
Steve Stack:
So that makes me think of a point as we’ve been developing different things, as far as our new studio and so forth, and we started doing some research and we did a little digging and we were down at Pap’s garage. And we were up upstairs in the garage. And I’ve shown them, I’ve shared them with you, we found the original metal placards to that saw mill. What was it, Buckeye? Buckeye Sawmill out of Columbiana, or?
Paul Baird:
That was… no, geez. Not Buckeye, Enterprise.
Steve Stack:
Enterprise.
Paul Baird:
Enterprise.
Steve Stack:
Buckeye was the model, I believe.
Paul Baird:
Buckeye was the model on it.
Steve Stack:
Yes. And those were manufactured right down the road here in Columbiana, Ohio.
Paul Baird:
Exactly. And then actually later on, even our newer mill was manufactured there. Yeah. And we actually bought that mill off of our dad, paid him $400 bucks for it and he went up and bought a baler, traded a baler to him somehow. So, a lot of years passed since then. Yeah.
Steve Stack:
Yeah and that just goes back, whether it was necessity or want or whatever the case was, but there was a mentality that started to be built.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
And having had the privilege of knowing Louis and Ada, I know where some of that came from.
Paul Baird:
Oh yeah.
Three Generations of Craftsmanship
Steve Stack:
I mean, your mom and dad, they were hardworking people and that was instilled into you guys and you guys have carried it forward. And now it has to give you an enormous amount of pride in knowing we not only have seen second generation, your two sons, your sibling’s children come in, take part of the business. Now we’re starting to see the third generation. And talk a little bit about that transformation. I mean, we’ve experienced it together.
Paul Baird:
Yep.
Steve Stack:
We’ve seen what I still refer to as the kids.
Paul Baird:
Right.
Steve Stack:
Right? And it’s nice to see, they’ve all come in and they’ve taken responsibility of roles within the company and in the day to day operations, just like you yourself are to this day.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
So talk a little bit about the kids. I know you’ve got some good stories about your boys tagging along with you out in the woods and in the shop and so forth. Tell us a little bit about that.
Paul Baird:
It’s… obviously, you think you’ve all heard about the third generation and I’m really impressed by what I’ve seen so far – the interest that they are starting to show and taking grips with. And you’ve seen it also. With as many grandchildren as I have, and siblings that are around here, you can’t expect them all to want to be in the business, you know, but what I’ve seen so far, I’ve been well impressed with it.
Steve Stack:
And it takes you back, and I can recall many nights you and Howdy and Dick at the end of the day, you coming back in from the woods crew and those guys being here running the sawmill and running the mill shop. But at the end of the day, you guys all would stand around a pickup truck and just have conversation.
Paul Baird:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
And we’re seeing more and more of that.
Paul Baird:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
As the kids, again, second generation and now the third, they bring new ideas.
Paul Baird:
Right.
Adapting to the Ever Changing Hardwood Products Industry
Steve Stack:
And just like we’ve experienced over the years, some ideas get pushed to the side, other ideas we try and get legs underneath them and run with them. And to that conversation, how have you seen the hardwood lumber industry, Baird Brothers Fine Hardwoods included, but also the industry in general, how it has changed?
I know right now, here we are in 2021, our country coming off of a pandemic, and there were different influences to our hardwood lumber industry. But in general, through the years, we used to build pallets. And then we started in mouldings. Tell us that story a little bit.
Paul Baird:
Well, it’s been a transition that obviously like in any industry, modernization comes along. And we’re doing things today that when you first started back, that you never even would had any idea that would break into something like we’re doing today. I mean we’ve got computerized and programmable controllers, and we’ve got what we call a woodeye over there in our trim shot or our rough mill that grades the board as that goes through, at a pace that it is really shocking. When you watch how everything is cut up and how you reminisce back by the olden days when you would stand there by hand or examine the board. But then that changed!
And then the customer base changed a lot for us over the years as we drifted into homes. And then that had to be addressed another way. And you know as well – you started out on a road selling a lot of years ago, and you remember what we were before that. I mean, the first business that we opened up when we set up a small finish is we had $50 minimum, if you remember that up on the wall. And then on the contractors only. We’re still basically a sawmill, as we grew this transpired over the years away from that. It’s been rather exciting to look back and look where we’re at today.
Steve Stack:
And in thinking back, there’s numerous things that I recall. But there were a couple things that stick with me vividly. The day that the first winding moulder was delivered. And that was like a huge step for you guys back then. And I don’t recall the year, but that was the first moulder set in that finish shop, if I’m not mistaken. Might have been the second, but it was one of the first newer machine.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
And having the techs come over, get it set up, get it running, and that’s when we really got serious about mouldings.
Paul Baird:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Becoming a Self-Sufficient Retailer
Steve Stack:
And that, along with the philosophy that all three of you brothers had of never sitting still, never being good enough, looking for better. When was it… and there’s a little story behind it, and I want you to tell it, that you decided to become self-sufficient as far as generating your own electricity? That’s a great story, share it with the folks.
Paul Baird:
Yeah. Obviously, when you’re in a small business, you’re a jack all trades. You would drive truck going to steel mills, or going to deliver lumber if need be. If you had a driver off, you had to do that job and you had to be able to handle that. So I went into the mills and you see a lot of that stuff in the mills. You’d see that generating power was important as you grew: your need for electricity, the costs went higher and then the heat in your buildings as you get bigger. And as we built buildings, you saw that there was a need there for that also.
Steve Stack:
Yeah.
Paul Baird:
And then, I kind of really by accident, there was a small pumping company down in Columbiana that went out of business and they had the first generator I bought. I bought it because it was cheap and it was fairly new. And I think, because we had our dry kilns at night sometimes, the power would go off and you didn’t want to lose heat in that. So that’s what I was going to hook that up for. And then another friend come along and, he says, “Why don’t you make your power?” And that’s how it began. I started putting an engine in and actually your father, Charlie, had what, 45, 46 years in here?
Steve Stack:
Something like that.
Paul Baird:
Yeah. So he and I started out on that and that’s how we grew into it. And obviously things got better. We weren’t very good at making electricity at the beginning. And a lot of people thought maybe we weren’t wrapped too tight, but it worked out. And then time went along, we were able to pick up gas wells and then drill a few of our own.
Steve Stack:
And that makes me think, and we’ve said it around here for years, and it’s been adopted nationwide as far as being good stewards of the forest and our natural resources and in our industry, a renewable natural resource, but we don’t waste anything.
Paul Baird:
No.
Steve Stack:
We take our saw dust byproduct and you use it to co-generate heat.
Paul Baird:
Yep.
Steve Stack:
And I mean, everything from the shipping pallets coming in, getting ground up to our off ripping, et cetera, so forth. And for a long time, we’ve said that we were green before people knew what green was.
Paul Baird:
Exactly.
Steve Stack:
And it’s a concerted effort to leave the smallest footprint that we can in respecting that natural resource that we use. And you, going back to the early beginnings, I know just through conversation over the years, that you and the logging crew, you were in stands of timber at different times over the course of the years because you went in and you select cut and then 10 years later, 15 year you might be back in that same woods taking the mature trees out and leaving that young growth come again.
Paul Baird:
Exactly. Yes. Yes. And as a matter of fact, the homewoods here, we just selective cut here what, two years ago?
Steve Stack:
Yeah. It’s been a couple years already.
Paul Baird:
Yeah. My brothers and I had cut most of the timber out of that back and it regenerated, but still as you grow, your need arises and you do it. And if you don’t have the technology or the knowledge to do it, then that’s when you start reading and that’s how you put things together.
Steve Stack:
Yeah. And it’s interesting that how you mentioned how our business has evolved, how our manufacturing practices and technology have advanced, and it’s still trying to be good stewards towards that natural resource. And it works.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
In our hardwood forest, it works when it is managed properly. So we’re fortunate in having that renewable natural resource.
Paul Baird:
Yeah. Yeah. There’s all aspects to forestry. There is a time when the woods have to be clear cut. There is a time, most of the time, there is a time that they can be regenerated by forestry practices called selective cutting.
Steve Stack:
Right. Right.
Paul Baird:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
So we’re fast forwarding from prior to 1960, actually, and then up to introducing the winding moulders and shifting gears, and you touched on our customer base. And I can recall, we had a customer base that included Mahoning County, Trumbull County, Portage County, maybe, and a little bit down south towards St. Clairsville in that area.
Paul Baird:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
And would you ever have dreamt that we would be in a position today serving all 50 states or shipping lumber to all 50 states and all of Canada? We have sales representatives in three different states, and our delivery vehicle serving those 120 mile radius of Crory Road here in Canfield, Ohio with our delivery trucks. And we have three or four LTL common carrier companies taking your product all across the United States. Would you have ever dreamt that?
Paul Baird:
No, no. That’s just things, a lot of that’s some of the change that goes on. And if you are not going to allow yourself to be in a position to change, then the end result is that you’re not going to be in business long.
Steve Stack:
Very much so. And I think back to when yourself and myself, I mean, we used to write orders on a order pad with a piece of carbon paper in between. And we did the math off to the side, and then the computers started coming on board. And how sister hated that.
Paul Baird:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
But it happened. And like you said, we adapted, we evolved, and that led to something very special.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
Our website, internet presence is a big part of this business today, no?
Paul Baird:
Exactly, exactly. And when you first started that, you had thoughts of, well, I don’t know whether this is going to be good for us or not, but that’s something that evolved and you grew into it, day by day. And we learned a lot. All this, when this all transpired, there were a lot of learning curves there. The whole way up from, like you mentioned, the first winding moulde, that wasn’t exactly a pretty thing either right at the beginning.
Steve Stack:
No.
Paul Baird:
There was a lot of learning going on there. Basically, because it didn’t work as they said it would. And then that’s what I mean, you have to evolve with it and learn. And if you don’t have the fortitude to accomplish that, then it’s going to be a lot tougher for you.
Beyond Architectural Millwork
Steve Stack:
Okay. So you mentioned fortitude and confidence. And I just dove back to the late 70s, the early 80s, when we had started to produce a lot of mouldings, but there was a downturn in housing. And you guys didn’t sit back on your laurels.
Paul Baird:
No.
Steve Stack:
I know Richard was a driving force behind it. And you guys had conversation about it. There was a stretch of a few years there where we built picnic tables.
Paul Baird:
Exactly.
Steve Stack:
And it goes back to number one, we’re always happy when we’re making saw dust. And you guys have always had the mentality that you keep your guys busy. And we went through a very hard downturn. So what’d we do? We made picnic tables for a well-known company at that time. Right? That was Kmart, right?
Paul Baird:
That’s right. Kmart. Yep. Learned a lot of lessons over that.
Steve Stack:
But we stayed busy. We stayed operational. And my gosh, I think at the one time we were serving 33 states for supplying Kmart with knock down picnic tables that we were assembling here, staining here and something we had never done before there again.
Paul Baird:
Yeah. One thing I’ve always been proud of is that we’ve never had a layoff that we had due to the downturn in business in the 60 years that we’ve been in business. We’ve never had that.
Steve Stack:
And I was going to ask you in our conversation today, what one of your proudest moments, whether it be with family or be with the business? And I think that statement that you just made of having never had a layoff in a 60 plus year company’s history, that speaks volumes. Is there anything else that ranks up with that?
Paul Baird:
The one thing we were always proud of there, quite a while, quite a long time was, we were able to fully cover the cost of healthcare for our business, until healthcare started to climb up astronomically. And that went on for quite a few years that we were able to do that.
Steve Stack:
Oh yeah. And even today, it is still very affordable for our coworkers, your employees, to afford good quality health insurance.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
And in these very different times.
Paul Baird:
Exactly.
Steve Stack:
In these very different times, so.
Paul Baird:
Exactly. Yeah.
Steve Stack:
You started out yourself, two brothers, and I know we’re somewhere surpassing 120 plus employees now.
Paul Baird:
Yes. Probably closer to 130. Yes.
Steve Stack:
We deal with a lot of personalities in a day’s time. Huh?
Paul Baird:
Yeah. All I have to do is walk around and see something. Obviously, with the times you have people floating in and out, but there’s a lot of people that I say, “I really don’t know that guy.” Yep. And, and yes, that’s the biggest change, going from knowing everyone, knowing the families, knowing your children, and even back it wasn’t like when you had 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, and as time goes on. Yes. You walk, you think, my gosh.
Steve Stack:
I think back and the cast of characters that you have employed over the years, any of them stick out in your mind?
Paul Baird:
Oh, there’s many. Yeah. And you just let it go at the characters at the end. We’ve been really fortunate as Steve could hear, but his dad started with us and other people that we’ve known when we were in high school. And a good many of those guys stayed on with us for 40 something years, and then retired. We had a lot of guys here that had 30 to 40 years, and that is pretty impressive. And we are all pretty much a family.
Steve Stack:
Yeah. And it makes me think, we’ve tried a lot of different things over the years.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
And there was some, “No, let’s not do it like that. Let’s do it like this.” It was a do over.
Paul Baird:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
So you learned and you went forward.
Paul Baird:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
Looking back, is there any one thing that sticks in the back of your mind that says, “Man, I wish I could do that over.”
Paul Baird:
Yeah. There is one. Not very many ventures that we went out, well our basic wood business, but there is one that I would’ve liked to try to get is when we took a run at the casket business. Yeah. Remember that one?
Steve Stack:
Yeah.
Paul Baird:
That one, I would’ve liked to put a little different effort into it, but there’s one basic thing to remember; I had an old friend of mine tell me way back when we were first starting out, says, “Don’t drift away from what you do and do well.” And we had, not a bunch, but we did that a couple times. It was different. It still was tied to the wood business, but it was still a little different.
Steve Stack:
But we always, and I’ll say again, we always come back home… and we’ve said it around here for years.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
There’s a certain product group that has built all these buildings on this facility. And it’s what you guys cut your teeth on. It’s what we learn to do very, very well. And we go back to that and that’s still the backbone of Baird Brothers Fine Hardwood.
Paul Baird:
And that’s the old philosophy.
Steve Stack:
Right. Right. And it’s always been our job to instill that in some of the new guys and so forth that we do quite a few things well.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
But there’s a certain product group, two, three, four of them you and I were talking earlier, our mouldings, our hardwood flooring, our interior doors, our stair components that we don’t do those very well, we’re outstanding in what we do.
Paul Baird:
Exactly.
Steve Stack:
And we’ve had the chance yourself, myself to travel the country, go to different facilities, and we produce a very nice product. And we’ve never lost sight of that when it falls into the hands of craftsmen around this country, in our local area. I have always said the Mahoning Valley, we are very blessed with some very good woodworking craftsmen.
Paul Baird:
Craftsmen.
Steve Stack:
And they take our product and take it to the next level. They make it shine. That made me think, we’ve recently, four years ago, we’d have never thought it, but we’ve had a chance to travel the east coast and now to the Midwest with that group called This Old House.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
We had the privilege of hosting them here at the facility in Canfield. And when you see that caliber of a company align itself with your company, that has to make you feel kind of special.
Paul Baird:
Yes, it does. And once you realize how special that group is, and it kind of mirrors us a little bit, it almost has a family feeling. I know that they’re not, but still, their whole premise of their business I think, floats into ours, like that.
Steve Stack:
The company’s philosophies parallel each other very well.
Paul Baird:
Right.
From Family Members to a Growing Work Family
Steve Stack:
Yes. Yeah. Very much so. So a lot of things, and I know you are a very self learned individual. I recognized that many, many years ago. Self-taught, self learned. And in the scope of the business and in life, what’s one of the most valuable lessons that you’ve taken away from the business, business decisions? We’re both blessed with great families.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
Anything jump out at, when you look back like that?
Paul Baird:
Yeah. There’s so many. Like you say, we’re blessed with families. When you have a family operation such as this, there has to be a special nucleus with that. You have to learn how to get along. And we were blessed, the three brothers we could get along from day one, the whole way through. I don’t care whether it was back when we were kids running a trap line or we were out in the farm or whatever. Oh, sure you had your differences. But the main important ingredient to that is when you had your differences, you could work it out and go on.
Steve Stack:
And I’ve witnessed some of those differences.
Paul Baird:
Just some.
Steve Stack:
And that goes back to something we touched on earlier.
Paul Baird:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
At the end of the day, there was a powwow out in the middle of that gravel parking lot out front. And it might not have been resolved, but by seven o’clock the next morning, it was resolved and everybody was fighting towards the same goal.
Paul Baird:
Exactly. Yeah. If you had differences, you know that you had your own family, you had differences on that, but the unique thing with us was when you see each other every day, and a lot of this stuff… how many years did we work six days a week?
Steve Stack:
We still do.
Paul Baird:
Well, I sometimes go seven. But no. So yes. And you’ve learned to be able to handle that and work through that.
Steve Stack:
It’s had to have been quite the ride for you. I mean, we have a very complicated make up, you know it better than anybody. We have the family element, now three generations deep. What have we got? We got six in the second generation. The three of you originally, six in the second generation, and I’m losing track because they’re coming back on board pretty fast. Now the third generation, what are we up to four, maybe five? Somewhere in there.
Paul Baird:
We’re up right around, we’re up at five.
Steve Stack:
Yes. I know your grandson, Wyatt.
Paul Baird:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
He’s finishing up high school and he’s here now when he’s not at school and jumping in and learning. Matt [Baird}, Richard’s son and his daughter. And Lori has children involved.
Paul Baird:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
And Howard has his grandson involved now. And so it’s really coming full circle.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
It’s really coming full circle. And I know you guys have busted your backs to turn a healthy business over to the next generation and the next generation. And that says a lot about Baird Brothers family: Baird family and Baird Brothers Fine Hardwoods. And you guys extend that family environment to your employees. There’s not an employee on this facility that cannot approach you.
Paul Baird:
Yes.
Steve Stack:
Right?
Paul Baird:
That’s right.
Steve Stack:
It’s always been like that, right?
Paul Baird:
It’s always been that way. Yeah. It’s always, yeah. And my main philosophy in life is to treat people like you would like to be treated yourself. That’s the basic that I’ve always worked with.
Promising Homeowners High-Quality Hardwood Products
Steve Stack:
And I’ve heard you say that before and to the human side, and then to the business side, I’ve heard you say it numerous times and I’ve quoted you on it numerous times. You do not want a product leaving this facility and going into one of our customers homes that you would not want that same product in your own home.
Paul Baird:
That’s exactly right. Yeah. What I put in my home, I want the same product to go to the people that buy our product. And the day that we’re the happiest is when they have that in their home and they’re satisfied with it.
Steve Stack:
And that’s so true. I mean, we’ve had the luxury of experiencing that over the years. And it’s still what we strive for every day. And one thing about it, and in representing and selling our product over the years, if there was a hiccup, I was always able to tell people, we’ve been at the same address since 1960. We’re not going nowhere.
Paul Baird:
Exactly.
Steve Stack:
We’re going to stand beside you and we’re going to make sure everything’s right. And we always have.
Paul Baird:
Yeah. Right. The scope of business that you do, we do and in any business, there’s going to be a problem once in a while. And that’s one of our promises is: we’re not happy until you’re satisfied. And whatever it takes to do it, that’s the way it is.
Steve Stack:
Exactly. Exactly. So I’m thinking that’s about all we have time for today. We covered a lot of ground. I appreciate you taking the time to sit down and just have a conversation and give us a little insight on Baird Brothers Fine Hardwoods here in Canfield, Ohio, and the evolution that we’ve gone through. And, hey, we look forward to putting our boots on tomorrow and coming to work, right?
Paul Baird:
Yep. I hope to see my shadow every day.
Steve Stack:
Thanks, Hatch.
Steve Stack:
For all you folks listening, thanks for talking shop with Baird Brothers Fine Hardwoods. If you enjoyed this episode and want to stay up-to-date with our American Hardwood Advisor series, give us a like and subscribe. For more tips, projects and inspiration, check us out on Facebook, Instagram or at www.bairdbrothers.com. Until next time!
