Growing a Family-Run Hardwood Lumber Company: A Conversation With Jessica Hickman Fresch
Note: this is a transcript from our recent AHA interview. If you would like to watch the video, check out our content studio page. This interview is also available as a podcast episode – find it here.
Steve Stack:
Brought to you direct from Studio 3B at Baird Brothers Fine Hardwoods, American Hardwood Advisor is your source for trends, tips, and insights into how the building industry has evolved.
Join me, Steve Stack, along with guest builders and industry leaders, as we talk shop and go in-depth on what it takes to be the best of the best.
Dive into topics like architecture, industry trends, project plans, historical tools, tricks of the trade, and life lessons from more than six decades of experience in the hardwood lumber business.
Growing Up in a Hardwood Lumber Co.
Steve Stack:
Hey folks. I’m Steve Stack coming to you from Studio 3B at Baird Brothers Fine Hardwoods in Canfield, Ohio. I have a guest today, who I refer to as a friend, Ms. Jessica Hickman Fresch from Emlenton, Pennsylvania. She is from the family-run hardwood lumber company, Hickman Lumber. Welcome, Jess.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Thanks.
Steve Stack:
We cross paths on occasion. When I go to Home and Garden shows and pass through Emlenton, I’ll pop in the office. Over the years, Baird Brothers Fine Hardwoods and Hickman Lumber have developed a nice business relationship that’s also a friendship. Your father, Denny, and Terry Baird are buddies. It’s funny how the companies parallel one another. One thing that jumps out most is that your company is in its fourth generation and at Baird, we’re coming into our third generation. The storylines are similar. Take me through the storyline of the Hickman family.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah. My great-grandfather, Harry Hickman Jr., started working for a logger when he was a teenager. This was around the depression era. He started the sawmill with a team of horses and met my great-grandmother. They secretly got married in West Virginia and then lived in the woods. They have a cool story. My great-grandmother died a couple of years ago, but she told me some stories about living in the woods. I mean, it was the depression era. They had a little portable, handset sawmill. They set up, the horses cut it down, then they sawed it and did their thing.
In 1938, Hickman Lumber was officially set up at our permanent location in Emlenton, Pennsylvania. My great-grandfather ran it. Then my grandfather, Pop Larry, started in the career. He’s in his mid-80s now and is officially retired, but he’s still pretty active. He’s just like Paul, who’s here all the time. Pop Larry went to lumber grading school and then worked at other sawmills for a while. Then he realized that other sawmills were making money and he could do it.
I don’t think Poppy Hickman was that great of a business guy. He did it, but Pop Larry was really the one who started buying property and grew Hickman Lumber into more of a business. He came back, partnered with his dad, and started growing Hickman Lumber. All my dad, Denny, did growing up was work at the sawmill. For a little while, he thought that he was going to play professional baseball. Then he realized that he wasn’t that good. So he went to lumber grading school and applied for a job at a sawmill in Hawaii. He went through all the paperwork before they rejected him saying, “Oh, you have a family business. You’ll probably end up going back to the family business.”
So, he got thrown into the family company as well. Since then, my dad has really grown the company by adding dry kilns. He was the one that brought in the dry kilns and added that part to it. In 2000, he started Allegheny Mountain Hardwood Flooring for the flooring side of stuff. I was still in high school at the time and I remember thinking that I’d never work there. I couldn’t wait to get out of western Pennsylvania. It’s a total guy industry, so working for the family business was never on my radar. I went to school, studied international business and Spanish, and did my own thing. I had a couple of different jobs for a few years. Then I worked my way back.
My dad asked me to come back and help out right after the housing recession in 2011. I officially joined in 2012 and said, “I’ll give you three years to get the website up to date and modernize things a little bit.” That was ten years ago now, so they sucked me back in. That’s where we are now. I run the flooring side of it. My brother, Jake, manages the sawmill. We don’t have as many siblings working as Baird does. My dad was the only son. He had two sisters that didn’t get into the industry. There are four kids in our family and our two sisters aren’t involved with it at all.
Steve Stack:
I didn’t know that about your father, Denny. He had his mind set and was going to Hawaii. That explains why you went to college and traveled the world.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah. I studied international business and Spanish. I was with the rotary club and did an exchange program between high school and college. I had a gap year where I lived with a host family in Costa Rica, which was an awesome experience. That was a big thing that made me appreciate western Pennsylvania (and America) even more. It was a lot being abroad. You appreciate the little things that you didn’t appreciate until you leave and come back.
Steve Stack:
The things you don’t have.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah, until you can’t flush toilet paper.
Steve Stack:
Right.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
I think it helps. My dad never pushed us to be part of it. He didn’t say, “Hey, we’re a family business. This is what you’re going to do when you grow up.” I think it’s better to get out and get experience elsewhere.
Steve Stack:
That’s what I was going to say. We’ve seen the same scenario play out here at Baird Brothers with our second generation. Lori went into the nursing field and worked the open heart floor at Cleveland Clinic. It was only a matter of time before she landed back at the family business. More recently, third-generation Zach Baird was with a major worldwide tire manufacturer. After a couple years of that, he said, “You know what? It’s time to go home.” Sarah Baird was in the meatpacking inspection business for the State. After she did a few years of that, she’s back. The great thing about those experiences is that you come back to the family business as a richer person.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Right. I added more to it than I could if that was all I knew. The Bairds are innovative, too, but people get stuck in their ways, saying “This is how we’ve always been doing things.” It’s tough sometimes to get those new ideas. You need someone with an outside view to see it so they don’t say, “Oh, this is what we’ve done. It’s what we’ve always done. We’re going to keep doing it like this.” They were still sending faxes at the sawmill when I started.
Steve Stack:
I’ve experienced that. Back in the day when we had the sawmill operation here, it was a sawmill operation and pallet building. Then it evolved into moulding and dry kilns. The second generation came in with some new ideas and they had to sell them to the first generation. All of a sudden, there’s a bairdbrothers.com website. It’s the same with your family and the Hickman Group. Now that has evolved. We are at places where we never thought we would be. I know that you have been very successful in your niche flooring market because you manufacture a very high-quality, specialty flooring product. You’ve done a fantastic job of networking with architects and designers.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah. We work on educating architects, designers, inspectors, and homeowners, especially. Ultimately, the homeowners make the decision. You have to get the homeowner to understand why there’s added value. White oak from Pennsylvania looks different than white oak from Kentucky. It’s just like drinking bourbon; there’s a top shelf and there’s a bottom shelf. It does the same job at the end of the day, but there’s a reason why people spend more on top-shelf stuff.
Steve Stack:
You are your father’s daughter.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
You know. You have experience with that.
Steve Stack:
It’s so true.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
There’s a difference.
Steve Stack:
Yeah. When did your brother Jake come in?
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
So he went and did some construction. He went to Penn State University. After school, he got into construction and lived on the road for probably three or four years doing road work construction. He had worked at the sawmill in the summers during high school and college. Before he came back, my dad said, “You have to go do something else. You can’t come straight into it just because you’re the boss’s kid. You have to add some value to the company.” So that’s what he did for a few years.
Steve Stack:
I think that’s huge. Go away for a little bit and see how nice it is at home. It’s the same thing with kids in a family business. Go out, see the world, and take your hard knocks. When you’re ready, come back and contribute to this family business.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Right. I think Baird Brothers has the same philosophy. You’re not going to get a job and a position just because of your last name. You have to add value to the company. Your whole team is dependent on you.
Quality Products from a Sustainable Sawmill
Steve Stack:
Very much so. For folks that aren’t familiar with the hardwood lumber company, Hickman Lumber, you have a nice, informative website up and running. What does Hickman Lumber do today? I know you still have a sawmill operation.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah. We’re a sawmill. White oak, red oak, and soft maple are really all we want to run through our dry kilns. We manage the forest, as well. We own some property and manage for a lot of private landowners. If we ever get poplar logs, my dad calls Terry and says, “What size do you want it cut?” We’ll cut it, but we won’t spend the time in the dry kilns with it. We specialize in rift sawn, quarter sawn, and live sawn lumber.
The live sawn cut used on your studio walls was cool. To do true rift and quarter sawn, you need logs that are at least 16 inches in diameter or larger. You actually cut quarters and work your way out.
My dad and pop were trying to figure out how to get more quarter sawn out of logs that are 10, 12, or 14-inches in diameter. The thought was live sawn, which is an old sawmill term where you just cut straight through the log, rip out the center, and you’re left with a couple of narrow rift and quarter sawn boards.
We started doing it and thought, “This is really beautiful-looking stuff.” You get some of that quartered figure up there, you get the mixed grain, a lot of knots and character because they’re the second and third logs of the tree where all the branches are. You get a lot of cool character.
We started making that into flooring in the early 2000s. We were the only ones in town selling something called “live sawn flooring.” We started doing it in the mid-2000s. There were a couple of contractors that picked us. We were getting more photography of it and getting that name out there.
In 2013, I wrote an article for Hardwood Floors Magazine explaining the different cuts, how they’re cut, and the specifics with it. Now you see live sawn all over the place. There’s live sawn in your LVT floors. It looks like live sawn and it’s sort of a European oak cut, too, where you get mixed grain and stuff. But still, that live sawn kind of originated with us in that sawmill.
Steve Stack:
That’s a good comparison to the European side. A lot of things developed through necessity and not wanting to waste anything.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yep. Right.
Steve Stack:
In the live sawn process, there’s minimal waste.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Right. Our live sawn product is certified by the Forest Stewardship Council. That goes back to our sustainability and how we manage the forest. It’s nothing different than what we were doing before, but now we can sell it to a museum or to anyone that feels good having that stamp of approval on it. Really, any wood product from the eastern United States is going to be pretty sustainable. But, we have that third-party verification for lead projects and things like that.
A lot of the FSC jobs that we get are museums that want eight-inch rift only. They don’t understand that for 10,000 square feet, you go through half a million feet of board material to get that. But they want the stamp on it to prove that it’s green and sustainable. Instead, you should be utilizing what the tree and your manufacturer produce — and it’s still beautiful.
I’m trying to do more of that education. I’m doing tours and “lunch and learns” with architects and spending time with people talking about that. If you really cared about being green, then this is the kind of stuff you should be doing.
Steve Stack:
In our facility here at Baird Brothers, we’ve always said that we were green before the government came up with the term. We utilize a natural renewable resource. We use everything; it’s never scrap. We produce a lot of different things. We produce some byproducts and even those are used in a responsible manner. Everything down to the sawdust. The pallets that products come in on are ground up and used as an energy source for our dry kilns or heating buildings. I know you guys are the same way. You use the bark mulch from your debarking process.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yep. We use sawdust for the kilns. Wood chips go to paper factories. It all gets used.
Steve Stack:
That goes back to what I was saying earlier. Not only do the two companies parallel each other, but also the families and philosophy. Folks will say, “Why is Baird Brothers talking to Hickman Lumber?” Or, “Why is Hickman Lumber talking to Baird Brothers?” It’s because there is such mutual respect between our two companies.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yep. I’m pretty sure my dad is getting some doors delivered today that you guys are making for his cottage.
Steve Stack:
That’s exactly where I was going.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
I think that’s happening this week.
Health Benefits of High-Quality Wood Products
Steve Stack:
You guys have created a niche wheelhouse that you stay in and you’re very, very good at. Baird Brothers goes in a little different direction with our product availability like interior doors, stair treads, and mouldings. We try to stay in that lane. When we need live sawn, who are we talking to? Terry’s talking to Denny Hickman. It’s a back-and-forth relationship.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
That’s what my dad said when we were setting up because we sold a lot of lumber to you guys before the flooring plant started. But Terry Baird was a big help when we were setting up and figuring things out. That’s what I’ve always enjoyed about the wood industry. There are so many good people that help each other out. We can all grow and be better by helping other people grow.
Steve Stack:
You don’t find that in every industry.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
No, you don’t. It’s a unique thing. Even outside people that look in and see us think, “You guys are kind of weird.”
Steve Stack:
I don’t know what it is about us. I’ve had the opportunity to travel, like yourself, to numerous trade shows. One of the trade show circuits that we traveled to was called The Woodworking Shows. It had everything from guys with a little table saw set up in their garage, to doctors or surgeons whose hobby was woodworking, and professional furniture builders. They attended these shows and all had mutual respect and appreciation for what each other did and the quality wood they used.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
This is a theory that I just came up with and maybe we should start studying it. There are health benefits to being around wood. Maybe it just makes people nicer. There are studies that show how biophilic design has healing benefits and boosts creativity, but maybe it just makes people nicer because they’re calmer. I don’t know, maybe there’s something to that. I’m going to talk to people higher up that can do some research on that for me.
Steve Stack:
I could be the guinea pig. We do a little segment here at Studio 3B called Build It With Baird. We have a couple of partners that we invite, one being Oak Hill Millworks. They come in and we’ll build a project together. And you know what? You’re right. At the end of the day, we worked for six, seven, or eight hours on a project. But when you leave, you think, “That was a good day.”
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah. You accomplished something,
Steve Stack:
You created something with your hands. It makes me think of another story, too. One time we were doing a little build-out and our contractor was down a man. He said, “We’re at a standstill for a couple of weeks. Steve, I need a helper.” I said, “I got my tool belt. Let me go up on a scaffolding.” It was the best five days that I’ve spent in I don’t know how long. You’re concentrating on what you’re doing and then you see it come to life.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
You’re not looking at a computer screen all day.
Steve Stack:
Right. There might be something there! That’ll be your book.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Oh jeez.
Steve Stack:
You have the sawmill operation and you still sell lumber. Your next big step was making hardwood flooring.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah, that’s been growing. We’re still pretty much in that growing period. We basically sell it unfinished.
Steve Stack:
Don’t minimize it!
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Right. We do some cool projects. Right now I’m working on flooring for the Penn State Art Museum. Donald Trump Jr. has been to and toured our sawmill. We have flooring in the Trump Towers in New York City. We have flooring in the U.S. Supreme Court and the vice president’s mansion. We have some Hollywood musicians. We have built a reputation with some installers for our rift and quarter sawn. We primarily make solid unfinished, but we make a really good product with it.
Steve Stack:
Here we go again with the common bond between our two companies. That little TV show called This Old House.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yes, we’ve done that one.
Steve Stack:
Yeah. We’ve both shared experiences with them. There’s also Restored by the Fords out of Pittsburgh.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Oh, yeah. Leanne Ford has done a handful. You guys have done some with her as well.
Steve Stack:
So we cross paths a lot and overlap each other. At Baird Brothers, our experiences with This Old House have been extraordinary. Again, woodworking people have a mindset of, “Quality product in, quality end result.” How simple is that philosophy?
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
We’ve been fortunate in that relationship. What we’re doing is starting to get repetitive. But your company has been around for about 70 to 80 years, correct?
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah. What’s the math? 80 years.
Steve Stack:
Yeah. We’re 62 years and have experienced a lot. You mentioned the 2011 housing downturn.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
A third of the sawmills in Pennsylvania went out of business. So, it’s not an easy industry to be in.
Steve Stack:
With that being said, there’s something that both your family and the Baird family live by. You get up in the morning, put your work boots on, go to work, and try to make something good happen. We’ve been through the roller coaster ride of the housing industry since that drives the majority of our businesses. Now, we’re coming off almost 24 months of something this country has never experienced in our lifetimes. In the COVID pandemic, did you guys see that change your business model? How did you shift gears to stay in production?
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Early on in the shutdown, sawmills and secondary manufacturing were considered non-essential for a few days. The paper mills and pellet factories were open and essential, but they’re dependent on us. It’s all dependent on each other. There were a couple of days when we were supposed to be shut down, but that’s all. We kept going but the demands have been insane, especially dealing with supply chain issues. Baltic birch and other engineered wood and plywood were made in Poland or Finland, but the logs are from Russia. So we’re not getting that anymore.
So it’s just American-made products milled here. There’s an increase in demand for that. The issue is trying to get more production out. People have been in their houses and want them updated and refreshed. I think that’s part of it.
There’s a growing demand for U.S. sourced products because it’s local; it’s made here. We need to get more people into the industry. In the forests to make sure there are more loggers, to the sawmill and secondary manufacturing. As a country, we need to encourage young folks to get into those industries.
Steve Stack:
I agree 100% on all fronts. At Baird, we experienced the perfect storm. Early on, we went through about a two-and-a-half-week company-wide shutdown.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Oh, was it that long?
Steve Stack:
We went old school. Separate and leave this thing to burn itself out within our facility, then come back to work. We’re thankful for a fantastic workforce of dedicated employees and workers. We came back after two weeks with about 85% of guys returning voluntarily. Like you, we were deemed as non-essential for a little while. Then, that changed and allowed our drivers and salespeople to go over into the state. People were stuck at home. They couldn’t travel or go on vacation. People had money saved up for their vacation.
They were sitting around and said, “Let’s do something to the house. Let’s put hardwood floors in. Let’s do an accent wall with paneling. Let’s switch the interior doors out.” Thank God that we had the workforce to supply the demand that we were seeing.
Because of the supply chain issues, we saw the demand for poplar go crazy because people couldn’t get medium density fiberboard (MDF) mouldings out of Venezuela and other foreign countries. They needed a paint-grade product. We manufacture finger-jointed poplar, which we consider a very high-quality paint grade product. It’s pre-primed, ready to be installed, finished, and painted.
There was a point where we couldn’t make it fast enough. It was a good problem to have. So, COVID made us shift gears to service our local retail customers. We went to a hands-free, will-call, order online or by phone, prepay, and pull in. You didn’t even have to get out of your car; we could load it for you and out the gate you went. We had to tweak it and make it more efficient, but we learned from it. It made us better on that end of the retail side.
Red Oak vs. White Oak
Steve Stack:
Coming out of it now, white oak is crazy.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Mm-hmm. We’ve been pushing red oak like crazy, including rift only or rift and quartered. Actually, we probably have more sales right now in red oak rift and quarter sawn than white oak.
Steve Stack:
That’s a good place to be.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
That’s great! I mean, nobody wants red oak, but there’s the price value and availability of it. There are a lot more red oak trees growing in Pennsylvania than white oak. Plus, your whiskey barrels and wine barrels need white oak. We’re competing with those guys for the big logs, the same ones you need for quarter sawn.
Our region produces a really pretty red oak, too. It has tight growth rings, a nice color, and stains well. We’ve been doing a lot more of that. It’s easier to get that rift-only cut in red oak because the medullary rays in red oak are smaller.
Steve Stack:
And that’s a beautiful product.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
It is.
Steve Stack:
It’s a drop-dead gorgeous product. You and I have talked before about both the red oak and the white oak. They have their own characteristics and coloration. Whether it’s a flat sawn red oak board, a flat sawn white oak board, quarter sawn, or rift sawn, they stand alone with a clear finish on them. They have their own identity.
However, imagine a stain scale from zero to ten. At three or four, red oak will give you a very similar finished product to white oak. At a five or six, you’ll need an educated eye to tell whether it’s red or white.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
But your pocketbook for that red oak is going to look a lot better than it would for the white oak.
Steve Stack:
Right.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
People start looking at that. It’s a good alternative.
Steve Stack:
Still, it hasn’t let up.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah, no. White oak is still the one. It has that higher-end look, but white oak is still just a wide plank. It’s crazy.
Steve Stack:
I know you have established relationships with architects and designers. What do they think caused this white oak craziness?
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
It just goes with everything. White oak is just really versatile. You could have purple trim and that white oak would look good with it. It looks good with walnut. It looks good with cherry. It’s just that natural warmth of the white oak; it’s a really beautiful wood. That’s what I put in my house. I’ve been pushing red oak like crazy, but I put the white oak in my own house. You can get it lighter, too. That’s a popular look, too. Add a little bit of white to it instead of just the clear coat and it’ll look unfinished and matte. The finishing companies will go a long way to make a finished product look like it’s unfinished.
Steve Stack:
I like the businesses that we’re in. I like how many companies are out there making imitation products and trying to make them look like wood. I think that’s the highest compliment.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
It is. Yeah. That’s true. The look is the ultimate goal. People love it, that’s universal.
Steve Stack:
They can get pretty close, but they can’t get the feel.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
They can’t get the feel. No. And who knows what gasses and toxins are being put in your home with those?
Have you heard of the Living Building Challenge? It’s kind of like LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) on steroids. LEED is all about green-sourced products and making energy efficient. Living Building Challenge is more about how to build homes in environments that promote your health. It’s even in commercial buildings. They make stairs more accessible, so you’re more likely to take the stairs instead of an elevator or escalator.
I’ve been researching this a lot. It led me to a site called healthymaterialslab.org. It’s big on staying away from laminate and plastic. Those imitation products are made of some of the most toxic chemicals. They say not to reheat your baby’s food in plastic because of the chemicals, so it’s crazy we have plastic all throughout the house. It’s terrible for the environment. It’s bad for your health.
The thing that got me reading more about this was because a veterinarian called to talk about flooring. She said, “I don’t have proof, but I see a much higher cancer rate in small dogs than I ever used to.” She thinks it has something to do with that plastic imitation flooring. She said that the cancer rate for these small dogs has been through the roof for the past five to ten years. She said, “There’s no way I’d put that stuff in my house.” That’s why she was looking for real hardwood flooring.
Steve Stack:
It’s common sense. With natural products, they did their job out in the forest and now they serve for eternity inside of your home.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yep. It’s literally a win-win.
The Future of Hickman’s Hardwood Lumber Business
Steve Stack:
Right. So what do you see down the road for Hickman Lumber and Allegheny Flooring?
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Oh, man. There are nine grandkids now that could be the fifth generation. I don’t know. They’re all pretty young, but we’re growing. We have some new equipment ordered. Things are back-ordered a year out for normal things that you need. It’s slow growth, but I don’t see things slowing down for a while. I think it’s all good stuff.
Steve Stack:
New equipment?
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah.
Steve Stack:
It’s good to reinvest into your company. The Bairds are very aware of that and practice that yearly with new technologies. I always say that whether it’s an interior door, cutting board, or hardwood floor, if you can get a customer to your booth at a trade show or into the showroom and they put their hand against that quality material hardwood, they’re sold.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yep.
Steve Stack:
They’re sold. I relate that back to the manufacturing practices that you guys have and that we try to instill here at Baird. All the technology and new equipment is fantastic. It might make a job easier, but our products come down to the human eyes and the human hands. I don’t see it slowing down. Even if it does, good companies like Hickman Lumber and Baird Brothers always find their way through it. So, nine grandkids?
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah. Dad has nine. I only have two. That’s plenty for me!
Steve Stack:
Grandma Jane is pretty much a full-time babysitter, right?
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Yeah. She pretty much has kids there a couple of nights a week.
Steve Stack:
That’s fantastic. I wish continued success to the Hickman family. You know how much we appreciate you, the family, and the business. I think there’s a lot more exciting stuff down the road for both companies. We’re going to have you back and have you drag Denny back over.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
Let’s get him and Terry here together.
Steve Stack:
Yeah. It would be a great conversation.
Jessica Hickman Fresch:
It would be a whole hunting podcast.
Steve Stack:
We have to do it. Folks, thanks for joining in today. We had a great conversation with our friend Jessica Hickman Fresch from Hickman Lumber. Follow along with them and follow our socials.
For all you folks listening, thanks for talking shop with Baird Brothers Fine Hardwoods. If you’ve enjoyed this episode and wanted to stay up-to-date with the American Hardwood Advisor podcast series, give us a like and subscribe. For more tips, DIY projects, and inspiration, check us out on Facebook, Instagram, read our tweets, or visit bairdbrothers.com. Until next time.
